Hu is much worse than his predecessor-Jian

怎么了， 臭知识分å­?ä¸?高兴了？没自由了？ 我看胡对知识分å­?还是太客气了，太客气他们就ä¸?知é?“天高地厚了， 还真的以为这江山是他们的，æ“?。王震说得好：“æ¯?过几年è¦?æ?€ä»–们一批，这样å?¯ä»¥å¤ªå¹³å??å¹´â€?

Another act of intimidation directed toward our Chinese commenters:

"what about it, you stinky, filthy intellectual? No freedom? From I can see, Hu is still too polite to the intellectuals. Since he is too polite, they’ll never learn how incapable they are and they’ll never learn to respect power. They really think that this empire is theirs. Fuck’n hell. Wang Zhen is correct when he said, “We have to kill some of them every few years. In this way we can guarantee peace for at least 10 years.�

(Wang Zhen, one of the Eight Immortals of Communist Party of China. A political supporter of Deng Xiaoping and member of his regime and the architects of the suppression by force of the pro-democracy protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989.)

pig's son, 虽然你的妈妈跟世界�国人民滥交，你也�用总是那么�客气啦��能怪我们� :lol:

Pigsun:

Znaval za zhenschyn mnogikh,
Tainstvenniy y strgoikh,
Nye v meru odinokikh,
Nye v meru razbitnikh....
...Milaya, Milaya, Milaya!
Nyezhniy moy angel zemnoy!
Tolko odazhdiy biyl schatliv ya,
V dyen nashey vstrechy s toboy!

Kiss kiss! xxx

@pigsun: 人家说东方有红太阳，原�是说你这�红烧猪头呀�

Sorry, couldn't resist. :P But seriously, is this guy a troll or what?

I have fifty gay Russian Omon Stormtroopers waiting for him. (They got tired with panzi and discarded him in a gutter. Next?....)

And with one comment, Pigsun wipes out "5000 years of history" and throws everybody back to year zero. Nice going, putz. Guys like Pigsun want to make China even more like Nazi Germany than it already is.

People like this are why peaceful and intelligent people so often need to be heavily armed.

Alright, now these are Chinese lessons I can't get anywhere else! I knew I stuck around the Pond for some reason! :wink:

TPD is rather addictive. But in a nice kind of way. :lol:

Seriously, don't worry about him, guys. Pigsun is obviously too retarded to ever make enough money to live. He's probably posting out of his mom's basement.

The general thing is, we don't have to care about dumb nationalists because they're too dumb to ever accrue the power and money necessary to effect any sort of political leverage in China. So why give a fuck?

Jeffrey, 这个地方别人è¦?么是美国人，è¦?么是在美国长大的。 唯有你好åƒ?å?¬ä¸ŠåŽ»åƒ?个中国人。你ä½?在国外å?§ï¼Œæˆ‘也是。我想忠告你，作为一个炎黄å­?孙，在国外ä¸?è¦?忘了自己的身份，天天和美国人一起骂中国是下æµ?的勾当。哪一天中国真的乱了，美军å?¦å…‹å¼€è¿›åŒ—京了，人肉炸弹一天几å??个，山河支离破碎，人民开始逃难，你会怎么想？你在美国舒æœ?的看ç?€ï¼Œä½ å„¿å­?问你，“爸爸，中国怎么会这样的？â€?　你敢说，“是爸爸和洋人们一起在网上煽动暴乱，é…?å?ˆæ³•è½®åŠŸæ°‘è¿?中情局一起把中国æ?žä¹±çš„，　爸爸是民æ—?罪人，是２１世纪的å?´ä¸‰æ¡‚“。　你有胆é‡?这么说å?—？如果没有，åŠ?你赶快悬崖勒马，å?šä¸€ä¸ªå¯¹å¾—起自己良心，对得起自己民æ—?的，　堂堂正正的中国人．

如果中美将æ?¥æœ‰æˆ˜äº‰ï¼Œå?¯èƒ½å°±æ˜¯ä½ é‚£æ ·çš„人闹起æ?¥çš„。你先骂了一顿jeffrey，然å?ŽåŠ?ä»–ä¸?è¦?骂中国，è°?会å?¬ä½ çš„？个人的立场和身份是两件没有相关的事情。你觉得所有å??三亿的å?Žäººéƒ½åº”该有个共å?Œçš„想法å?—？接ç?€æƒ³è±¡å?§ï¼?

OK,你用中文,我也�用中文.

�"人"的最基本�求,除了生物�义上的�求外,还有�德上的.诚实,守信,�欺压,�鱼肉别人,�为独�暴�背书等等,这些应该是最基本的了.

如果连�"人"的最基本�求都达�到,更没资格说自己是"中国人".因为"中国人"这三个字,个人认为其包�的内容比"人"更丰富,其资格�求也更高.唯有对自己的中国人身份有更高的�德标准,�能无愧祖先,无愧5000年的历�;

但是,迫害中国百姓长达二å??å¹´çš„æš´å?›,显然是ä¸?能用"中国人"æ?¥ç§°å‘¼ä»–çš„.鱼肉百姓,贪赃枉法的,也ä¸?宜用"中国人"这个称呼;无故关押chen chan,扣押hao wu,将无辜的盲律师chen guanchané€?进牢房的,也没资格使用"中国人"这个è¯?.他们也许是生物æ„?义上的"人"/"中国人",但ç»?对ä¸?是é?“å¾·æ„?义上的"人"/"中国人".

在国内很多论å?›ä¸Š,有"中国人"å?‘布仇日仇美的文章.仇日仇美的文章并ä¸?令人特别的憎æ?¶---如果这些文章所æ??述的是基于事实的è¯?.令人憎æ?¶çš„是这些文章全部出于å?‘布者的想象,是æ?œæ’°çš„.比如æµ?行的有"一个日本å°?孩的惊人之语""韩国地图将中国注为韩国一çœ?""一个在上海的日本学生的狂言".这些挑衅性教唆性的文章的作者,å·±ç»?è¿?背了å?šäººçš„最基本è¦?求之一"诚实",éš¾é?“这样的"人",也算"中国人"?除了在论å?›ä¸Šè¡¨æ¼”其廉价的"爱国秀",还有什么æ„?义?

所以,一个人,首先是"人",然��是"中国人".而�是首先是"中国人",然��是"人".如果�"人"的价值观与�"中国人"的价值有了冲�,那么我�愿选择�"人",而�愿选择�"中国人",因为"中国人"首先�是"人",而�是无廉耻感的"动物".

有人喜欢将历�上罪�事件的责任,推给暴�.但为暴�背书的,纵容暴�的,个人认为�样需�承担历�责任.

ä¸?需è¦?用这个论å?›ä¸Šçš„网å?‹çš„国ç±?(美国)æ?¥ä¸ºè¿™ä¸ªè®ºå?›æŒ‚上标签.人为给别人挂上标签,就象毛时代一样给普通人挂上"地富å??å??å?³"的标签一样,是æž?度è?’谬的å?šæ³•.

法轮功,我个人é?žå¸¸ä¸?喜欢.但民主的精义在于,ä½ ä¸?喜欢的东西,就算å†?è?’è°¬å?¯ç¬‘,ä½ å?¯ä»¥ä¸?接å?—,ä¸?认å?Œ,但你ä¸?能去剥夺别人喜欢接å?—çš„æ?ƒåŠ›.如果法轮功有这么大的魔力与破å??力,能让这么多中国人走ç?«å…¥é­”,为什么一到国外,美国å?°æ¹¾é¦™æ¸¯,å°±å?˜æˆ?毫无æ?€ä¼¤åŠ›äº†å‘¢?这个问题,ä¸?知é?“PIGSUN有没有考虑过?

pigsun, 别一说�过人家就说人家�是中国人。你既然�在国外，�知�在中国的网络��等有多么严�，你有什么资格说�？对得起民�就一定�你一样，骂�骂去？我想，我说真心�，说我认为正确的�，�真正对得起民�。

To translate pigsun's words: Jeffrey, everyone else here is either American, or grew up in America. Only you sound Chinese. You're overseas, aren't you? So am I. I want to advise you, you are a son of China. Don't forget who you are overseas, and badmouth China along with the Americans. If China really does fall into chaos someday, and the tanks of the US army drive into Beijing, and there are tens of bombs every day, the land is shattered, people start running, what will you think? You'll sit comfortably in the US watching. When your son asks you, "Dad, why is China like this?" Will you dare to say "It's because your father encouraged baoluan (which is something like dongluan, I think) on the internet along with foreigners, and cooperated with FLG and the intelligence agencies of the democratic movements to throw China into chaos. Daddy is a criminal of the Chinese races, the Wu San Gui of the 21st century?" Will you dare to say that? If not, stop this quickly, and become a Chinese person who doesn't betray his conscience and his race.

To answer that, in part: Not everyone who is not Chinese is American! How many times do I have to say this? The West is not just America! And nobody on this forum, nobody, is asking for tanks and guns. Nobody is asking for violence. Why can you not get the idea of peaceful protest into your head, and stop yelling about betrayal?

我本人一直在国内,从未è¸?足过外邦.我本人å?Œæ ·çš„æ›´é?’ç??中文BBS,而ä¸?是英文BBS.中文更能让我æµ?利地表达自己的想法,有é™?的英文水平让我表达时往往è¯?ä¸?è¾¾æ„?.但我为什么è¦?常æ?¥PEKINGDUCK.ORGå?‘言?因为在本人的æ¯?语网站,除了在那些被å°?çš„(比如MITBBS,BBSLAND,POPYARD.oRG),我除了歌颂,就没有别的æ?ƒåŠ›!我å?Œæ ·å?šæŒ?认为,用暴力å°?ä½?别人嘴巴ä¸?让别人å?‘言的,ç®—ä¸?上人,æ›´ç®—ä¸?上是中国人!

赞� Jeffrey 的说法�Pigsun 在这里�这样的帖�，没有被删，被�；但如果我们在中国论�上说我们的观点，会被删掉，被痛骂一顿。

Well, Aramel, at least the CCP won't kill us for what we're saying. I hope.

:lol:

Honestly, though, it's gotten better in my years here. And even my dear old grandpappy, who got shafted repeatedly between 1957 and 1979 (and nearly got shot in the CR), now looks favorably on the CCP in its current censorship policies. I, of course, don't, but I do approve of the relatively liberalizing trend which has taken place over the term of Hu Jintao (some media now does cover corruption, etc, although you guys are welcome to disagree--I'm stuck in the mainland's most cosmopolitan, liberal city so of course my viewpoint will be slanted.)

pigsun

我��jeffery，我也觉得在考虑美国人�中国人之�应当考虑一下人的问题，这�是最��的。国家�是为人或者一�人的生活方�，�有人本身�是最��的。我知�你也�会在乎或者说�一定会明白我的��（而且我也�一定对），�过我�希望在�什么之�想一下为什么，总是有好处的。而�是在�考之�就已���感情决定�支�那里了。
btw，我在北京。

translation
i agree with jeffery, i think before taking americans and chineses into consideration, think about the human itself which is the most important. country just is for people or a way for people to live, only human itself is essential. i guess you will not mind what i said or will not get my idea(and which is maybe not right either), but i only hope think with your brain before do sth, that always works, not the way saying inside your feelings.
btw, i'm in beijing

t_co, I do agree that Hu's policies are much better than Mao's or Deng's. My parents' generation and my grandparents' both testify to this. It's why I dare to come here (with a proxy and anonymiser, admittedly) and say all this. But he's not necessarily more liberal than Jiang, what with his internet censorship policies, the no-��事件, and so on.

Corruption does get reported sometimes, but it seems that the offenders who get reported aren't very high-up. It was more or less the same in Jiang's time, so I can't really say anything about that. But Zhao Jian Ming's detention (and CCTV's very detailed coverage thereof) has roused some envy. I know that such a thing would be impossible in the Mainland. But hey, I can hope.

pigsun就�在国外,天天以为国内的臭�好香,因为根本就闻�到

I would like to thank Jeffrey for posting 2 very well written Chinese comments in response to Pigsun. I have taken the liberty of translating those 2 pieces of writings into English to share with other readers:

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:13 am

OK if you prefer to write in Chinese, then I’ll use Chinese.

As “human beings�, we have an obligation to uphold basic ethical standards. Being honest, not assisting dictators to oppress others and not condoning to act of tyranny are just some examples.

If we can’t live up to these standards, then we are not qualified to be “Chinese�. It is because a respectable Chinese national always strives to achieve a much higher ethical standard. Only then we can do honour and justice to our ancestors and to our five thousand years of history.

But we have been under a regime of tyranny for the past 20 years. This regime is oppressive and corrupt. This regime put innocent people such as Chen Chan, Hao Wu and the blind lawyer Chen Guanchen in prison for no legal reasons. From an ethical point of view, this regime is less than human and is not qualified as “Chinese�.

Some “Chinese nationals� are publishing hate-American and hate-Japanese essays on discussion forums in China. There is nothing wrong with expressing hatred towards America and Japan if the authors’ claims are based on facts. Unfortunately what had been said in those essays are nothing more than the authors’ own imagination and fabrication. Here are the titles of some of the popular essays: “Frightening words from a Japanese kids�, “Korean maps listing China as a Korean province� and “Wild claims of a Japanese student in Shanghai�. The authors of these provocative essays are dishonest and lack even the most basic human decency. Why should we still consider them as “Chinese�? Apart from selling their cheap “nationalistic sentiment� on discussion forums, what else have they achieved?

What I am saying here is that we are first and far most “human beings�. Only when we are “human� can we be “Chinese�, not the other way round. If the sense of value of being “Chinese� contradicts with that of being “human�, then I’d rather be “human�. I’m not prepared to cling onto my “Chineseness� if that means I have to denigrate myself to a shameless “beast�.

People often blame tyrants for past atrocities. But from what I can see, those who condone and tolerate acts of tyranny are equally guilty.

Please don’t cast aspersion on this discussion forum based on the (American) nationality of its posters. This is similar to Mao’s practice of casting aspersion on ordinary people by calling them “rich landlords and counter-revolutionary rightists�. It is very absurd.

FLG, I dislike them very much. However, the spirit of democracy requires us not to deny other people of their right to pursue ideology of their own choice, even if this is irrational, silly, laughable, disagreeable and unacceptable to you. If FLG is really so evil, destructive and misleading, why is it that practitioners who escaped to the US, Taiwan and Hong Kong did not destroy those places? PIGSUN, I’m wondering, do you have an answer for this question?

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:26 am

I have always been living in China and have never been abroad. I visit Chinese language BBS more often than I visit English language BBS because I can express myself better and more fluently in the Chinese language. My English language is not very good and very often I am struggling to express an idea. Then perhaps you would like to know why I’m posting at PEKINGDUCK.ORG. I’m posting here because at Chinese language blogs (apart from those that are no longer accessible, such as MITBBS, BBSLAND, POPYARD.ORG), I am only allowed to utter words of praise. I’m not empowered to say anything else. In my opinion, those who have to resort to violence in order to silence others and to deny others of their freedom of speech are not “human� and hence, not “Chinese�.

�"人"的最基本�求,除了生物�义上的�求外,还有�德上的.诚实,守信,�欺压,�鱼肉别人,�为独�暴�背书等等,这些应该是最基本的了.

如果连�"人"的最基本�求都达�到,更没资格说自己是"中国人".因为"中国人"这三个字,个人认为其包�的内容比"人"更丰富,其资格�求也更高.唯有对自己的中国人身份有更高的�德标准,�能无愧祖先,无愧5000年的历�;
-----

典型的民è¿?言论， 原æ?¥åœ¨ä½ ä»¬çœ¼é‡Œä¸­å›½äººé‡Œé?¢å?ªæœ‰å??å?Žåˆ†å­?æ‰?是人，别的ä¸?是人，是把。你爸当年怎么没把你射在墙上ï¼?

法轮功,我个人�常�喜欢.但民主的精义在于,你�喜欢的东西,就算��谬�笑,你�以
ä¸?接å?—,ä¸?认å?Œ,但你ä¸?能去剥夺别人喜欢接å?—çš„æ?ƒåŠ›.如果法轮功有这么大的魔力与破å??
力,能让这么多中国人走�入魔,为什么一到国外,美国�湾香港,就��毫无�伤力了呢?
这个问题,�知���有没有考虑过?

----------------------------------

求求你了，去买点智商回æ?¥å?§ã€‚è½®å­?在美国å?°æ¹¾ä¹Ÿæ•¢é—¹ï¼Œè°?给他å?ƒçš„？ 他的大纪元新å”?人ä¹?评è°?æ?¥ä¹°å?•ï¼Ÿ 他雇æ??怖分å­?干扰中国å?«æ˜Ÿå“ªæ?¥çš„钱？看æ?¥æ±‰å¥¸ä»¬ä¸šåŠ¡æ°´å¹³æœ‰å¾…æ??高阿。。。

无论轮�的一些人�媒�什么，他们�应该为这个而整体被抓被打。如果他犯了罪， �以追究法律责任，但�能把所有信这个的人都歧视�用暴力手段对待。

ä½ å?¯ä¸?å?¯ä»¥ä¸?è¦?一说ä¸?过人家就å?šäººèº«æ”»å‡»ï¼Ÿå¦‚果对党æ??出一点之一就算汉奸，我倒明白当年所谓的“汉奸â€?怎么有那么多了。

对党有批评ä¸?一定是å??å?Žã€‚如果我说å?ªæœ‰å¯¹å¾—起自己的良心，ä¸?说è¿?心è¯?，æ‰?能算个堂堂正正的人，你å?¦è®¤å?—？如果有人真心相信党，那是他们的事，他们ä¾?然å?¯ä»¥æ˜¯å¾ˆå¥½çš„人，因为他们为自己的信仰å?–力；但我们既然ä¸?信，既然看到了这ç§?黑暗，就è¦?说，ä¸?然我们就è¿?背了å?šäººå¾—基本è¦?求。

All right, English translations, to save Fat Cat some trouble:

No matter what FLG did or did not do, they should not be mass persecuted for it. If some of them broke the law, they should be tried for that; but the rest of the FLGers shouldn't be discriminated against and treated with force.

Pigsun wrote:

Could you stop using personal attacks every time you lose the edge in this argument? If, by questioning the Party, one becomes a traitor, then I certainly know why there were so many "traitors" back then.

Pigsun wrote:

Criticizing the Party is not necessarily anti-China. If I said that only people who did not betray their own conscience and say words that they did not mean could truly be said to be upright and just humans, would you deny that? If someone truly believes in the Party, that's their business. They can still be very good people. They work for their beliefs; but since we don't believe, since we've known of this darkness, we're going to speak out against it. Otherwise, we'll have betrayed our humanity.

The general thing is, we don't have to care about dumb nationalists because they're too dumb to ever accrue the power and money necessary to effect any sort of political leverage in China. So why give a fuck?

Dude, you're fucking hilarious.

Can someone translate jeffery's reponse? It would take me an hour to read it.

PIGSUN's assaults against me indicates that his aim is not going to debate with us on politics in a gentlement way, but incite us in a country-women way. thus I can conclude that he is not a respectable opponent. Continuing this discussion is meaningless.
But I am pitying for PIGSUN's education. although he is studying aboard in a democracy, he has never learnt the essence of democracy.

I also would like to counter-back PIGSUN's baseless accusation against me. the democratic movementers are not betrayers, because, the democracy theory is not an exclusive product belonged to westerners, but a treasure to all human beings. by contrast, the theory of MAXISM is rooted from some GERMANY and RUSSIANS. the chinese COMMUNISM was learnt from RUSSIAN. If PIGSUN like to call others "betrayers to chinese", then please look back to the history of yourself and your party.
you may call others as "the son of American". We, in a same way, using same logics as yours, may call you as "the sons of RUSSIAN".
Check your party's constitution, and tell me who is still worshipping a foreign religion( i mean, MAXISM religion) and putting this religion into chinese constitution. how dare you-the sons of RUSSIAN put this foreigners' belief into chinese constitution? how dare you guys call others "betrayer" while you put a foreign belief into chinese constitution?

let me translate this into chinese:
在此我想å??击一下PIGSUN对我的指责."æ°‘è¿?分å­?"ä¸?是汉奸,因为,"民主"是普世价值,而ä¸?是西方人的专有产å“?.相å??地,"马克æ€?主义"(共产主义)å?´æ˜¯ä¸?折ä¸?扣的根æº?自德国与俄国,中国的"共产主义"也是从俄国佬那儿学æ?¥çš„.如果PIGSUN将别人称为"汉奸",我建议他回头看看自己å?Šè‡ªå·±å…šæ´¾çš„历å?².ä½ å?¯ä»¥å°†åˆ«äººç§°ä¸º"美国人的儿å­?",我,å?Œæ ·åœ°,也å?¯ä»¥å°†ä½ ä»¬ç§°ä¸º"å¾·ä¿„æ´‹å­™".
去翻翻中国的宪法,看看��然在对一个外�的宗教(指共产主义)礼膜礼拜,看看�将这门异国的宗教放进了中国的宪法.当你们将外国的宗教放进中国的宪法时,你们
还有什么资格称别人为"汉奸"?

Lightyear, my very long posting above is a full translation of Jeffrey's Chinese comments up to that point of time.

Perecution complex + jabber about race = bloody fool

A primer for Pigsun

1. Not all foreigners are American
2. The Americans don't want to conquer China (don't flatter yourself)
3. Critisizing your own contry does not equal disloyalty
4. Thinking about race in terms of loyalty and disloyalty do it reveals you as a racist ass. And racists don't need to be listened to. They need to be ignored, jailed or killed as the situation warrents.

My advice Pigson:

1. learn how to think
2. grow up and get some adult ideas

Iron Buddha, you're right, but you're wasting your breath giving Pigson any kind of rational advice.

My advice to Pigson: Put on your spiked heels and do a dance for me and my 50 Russian Omon stormtrooper friends who have just returned from a long and lonely tour of duty in the Caucasus. Kiss kiss!

My preference is to have them killed or jailed. But that'd be a bit cruel. So I'll settle for ignoring them. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know, I know. You're both right. I'll have to quietly settle for the fantasy of meeting pigsun in a dark alley some night. The we'll hear some squealing!

"Deliverance" with fifty sex-starved Russian stormtroopers!

(Cue the banjo music playing "Moscow Nights"....)

"Squeal, pigsun! Squeal like a pig!"